Monday, October 30, 2006

white elephant gift exchange

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同主题阅读:面试题 - white elephant gift exchange
[版面:金融工程] [首篇作者:person] , 2006年10月29日12:21:10
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发信人: person (幸福的黄马甲), 信区: Quant
标 题: 面试题 - white elephant gift exchange
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Oct 29 12:21:10 2006)


上来他问我只不知道white elephant gift exchange,我说不知道,于是他介绍问题如下

设置
1. 2n (n>3)个礼物,价值依次为1至2n的整数,标价公开
2. 有2n个人,编号1至2n, 人分两组,编号为奇数的一组,编号为偶数的一组
3. 胜负:
游戏终止时,若编号为奇数的一组拿到礼物总值大于n(n+1),奇数的一组赢
若编号为偶数的一组拿到礼物总值大于n * n,偶数的一组赢
否则平

规则
1. 开始时,没有人有礼物,
2. 由没有礼物的编号最大的人选礼物
他/她可以选一样还没人要的礼物,
或他/她可以抢一样已经有人要的礼物,但是
这个礼物不能是上一轮中刚被抢过的礼物
也不能是已被抢过三次的礼物
3. 若不是每个人都有礼物了,返回第2条

问哪个组可以必胜,如何?

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skydive
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发信人: skydive (跳跳~~备战备荒为人民), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: 面试题 - white elephant gift exchange
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Oct 29 12:25:45 2006), 转信


被抢过礼物的人转变成没礼物的?

下一轮立刻可以参与?


【 在 person (幸福的黄马甲) 的大作中提到: 】
: 上来他问我只不知道white elephant gift exchange,我说不知道,于是他介绍问题
如下
: 设置
: 1. 2n (n>3)个礼物,价值依次为1至2n的整数,标价公开
: 2. 有2n个人,编号1至2n, 人分两组,编号为奇数的一组,编号为偶数的一组
: 3. 胜负:
: 游戏终止时,若编号为奇数的一组拿到礼物总值大于n(n+1),奇数的一组赢
: 若编号为偶数的一组拿到礼物总值大于n * n,偶数的一组赢
: 否则平
: 规则
: 1. 开始时,没有人有礼物,
: ...................


--

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发信人: person (幸福的黄马甲), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: 面试题 - white elephant gift exchange
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Oct 29 12:29:30 2006)



只是由于规则不能把刚被抢走的礼物抢回来

【 在 skydive (跳跳~~备战备荒为人民) 的大作中提到: 】
: 被抢过礼物的人转变成没礼物的?
: 下一轮立刻可以参与?
: 如下



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juedr
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发信人: juedr (我的不是你的我的前世今生), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: 面试题 - white elephant gift exchange
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Oct 29 14:55:25 2006)

平。
分析一下可以看出:
1,偶数方先拿,然后奇数方,如此循环下去,无论发生抢夺与否。
2,任何一个数三次易手后就定了。所以先选择这个数的一方最后肯定得不到这个数。
3,由2知,最佳策略是选择没有OPEN的数里面最小的一个。把大数的初夜权留给对方,
最终再夺过来。
因此,偶数方选择的是开始的选择次序是1,3,5。。。奇数方选择的是2,4,6。。。
最后双方交换。
所以最后结果是平。

"上来他问我只不知道white elephant gift exchange,我说不知道,于是他介绍问题
如下

设置
1. 2n (n>3)个礼物,价值依次为1至2n的整数,标价公开
2. 有2n个人,编号1至2n, 人分两组,编号为奇数的一组,编号为偶数的一组
3. 胜负:
游戏终止时,若编号为奇数的一组拿到礼物总值大于n(n+1),奇数的一组赢
若编号为偶数的一组拿到礼物总值大于n * n,偶数的一组赢
否则平

规则
1. 开始时,没有人有礼物,
2. 由没有礼物的编号最大的人选礼物
他/她可以选一样还没人要的礼物,
或他/她可以抢一样已经有人要的礼物,但是
这个礼物不能是上一轮中刚被抢过的礼物
也不能是已被抢过三次的礼物
3. 若不是每个人都有礼物了,返回第2条

问哪个组可以必胜,如何?"
--

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person
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发信人: person (幸福的黄马甲), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: 面试题 - white elephant gift exchange
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Oct 29 16:38:19 2006)



谢谢, 但我不是很明白你的解答

1,“偶数方先拿,然后奇数方,如此循环下去,无论发生抢夺与否”
如编号为2n的人先挑x,编号为2n-1的人抢x, 编号2n的人再挑y,
下面轮到编号2n-2的人挑或抢
所以此时序列是偶数方,奇数方,偶数方,偶数方....
2. "先选择这个数的一方最后肯定得不到这个数"
若如你的例中所说“偶数方选择的是开始的选择次序是1.. ”
奇数方以后可永不抢1号礼物啊,那1号礼物不就死在偶数方了?



【 在 juedr (我的不是你的我的前世今生) 的大作中提到: 】
: 平。
: 分析一下可以看出:
: 1,偶数方先拿,然后奇数方,如此循环下去,无论发生抢夺与否。
: 2,任何一个数三次易手后就定了。所以先选择这个数的一方最后肯定得不到这个数。
: 3,由2知,最佳策略是选择没有OPEN的数里面最小的一个。把大数的初夜权留给对方,
: 最终再夺过来。
: 因此,偶数方选择的是开始的选择次序是1,3,5。。。奇数方选择的是2,4,6。。。
: 最后双方交换。
: 所以最后结果是平。
: "上来他问我只不知道white elephant gift exchange,我说不知道,于是他介绍问题


--

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zgsun
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发信人: zgsun (源泉), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: 面试题 - white elephant gift exchange
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Oct 29 17:06:27 2006)

How do you define next round?

Does round mean at least a new item should be openned? Or it means someone
makes a decision steal/getnew?

【 在 person (幸福的黄马甲) 的大作中提到: 】
: 上来他问我只不知道white elephant gift exchange,我说不知道,于是他介绍问题
如下
: 设置
: 1. 2n (n>3)个礼物,价值依次为1至2n的整数,标价公开
: 2. 有2n个人,编号1至2n, 人分两组,编号为奇数的一组,编号为偶数的一组
: 3. 胜负:
: 游戏终止时,若编号为奇数的一组拿到礼物总值大于n(n+1),奇数的一组赢
: 若编号为偶数的一组拿到礼物总值大于n * n,偶数的一组赢
: 否则平
: 规则
: 1. 开始时,没有人有礼物,
: ...................



--

※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 http://mitbbs.com·[FROM: 24.98.]


person
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发信人: person (幸福的黄马甲), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: 面试题 - white elephant gift exchange
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Oct 29 17:53:38 2006)


我从没提到过next round啊

如果一定要的话,应该是
someone makes a decision steal/getnew

当每个人都有礼物的时候,游戏就结束了,没有下一轮

【 在 zgsun (源泉) 的大作中提到: 】
: How do you define next round?
: Does round mean at least a new item should be openned? Or it means someone
: makes a decision steal/getnew?
: 如下



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zgsun
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发信人: zgsun (源泉), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: 面试题 - white elephant gift exchange
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Oct 29 19:48:29 2006)

I mean this.
这个礼物不能是"上一轮"中刚被抢过的礼物

Suppose A just steal x from B, and B steals y from C, now can C steal from A?

If next round is defined that "only one new gift is open", C cannot steal
from A.

【 在 person (幸福的黄马甲) 的大作中提到: 】
: 我从没提到过next round啊
: 如果一定要的话,应该是
: someone makes a decision steal/getnew
: 当每个人都有礼物的时候,游戏就结束了,没有下一轮



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发信人: bushel (失乐园), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: 面试题 - white elephant gift exchange
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Oct 29 19:59:15 2006), 转信

我怎么觉得是后拿的必胜阿
也就是单号必胜阿

【 在 person (幸福的黄马甲) 的大作中提到: 】
: 上来他问我只不知道white elephant gift exchange,我说不知道,于是他介绍问题
如下
: 设置
: 1. 2n (n>3)个礼物,价值依次为1至2n的整数,标价公开
: 2. 有2n个人,编号1至2n, 人分两组,编号为奇数的一组,编号为偶数的一组
: 3. 胜负:
: 游戏终止时,若编号为奇数的一组拿到礼物总值大于n(n+1),奇数的一组赢
: 若编号为偶数的一组拿到礼物总值大于n * n,偶数的一组赢
: 否则平
: 规则
: 1. 开始时,没有人有礼物,
: ...................


--

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person
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发信人: person (幸福的黄马甲), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: 面试题 - white elephant gift exchange
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Oct 29 20:00:00 2006)


sorry

yes, suppose A just steal x from B, and B steals y from C, now can C steal
from A.

【 在 zgsun (源泉) 的大作中提到: 】
: I mean this.
: 这个礼物不能是"上一轮"中刚被抢过的礼物
: Suppose A just steal x from B, and B steals y from C, now can C steal from
A?
: If next round is defined that "only one new gift is open", C cannot steal
: from A.



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oolong
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发信人: oolong (乌龙茶), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: 面试题 - white elephant gift exchange
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Oct 29 20:18:34 2006), 转信

后拿的最后要求的分数也高阿

【 在 bushel (失乐园) 的大作中提到: 】
: 我怎么觉得是后拿的必胜阿
: 也就是单号必胜阿
: 如下



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person
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发信人: person (幸福的黄马甲), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: 面试题 - white elephant gift exchange
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Oct 29 22:52:34 2006)


若even numbers好,the odd side也可以上来就抢even numbers啊

【 在 cashine (Who Am I) 的大作中提到: 】
: You're right.
: Basically no one will go for no.1, so there are really just 2n-1 gifts.
: At most they can be snatched (2n-1)*3 times which is odd.
: Now the gift-picking process is a rotation between even and odd number, so
: it is definite that the last snatch is from an even number person instead
of
: the odd number person.
: This means that "1" belongs to the odd group, hence they will lose.
: The even side should win.
: My strategy is, they always go for even numbers (2,4,...) or snatch odd
: numbers from the odd side, and the odd side will have to snatch these even
: ...................



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发信人: zgsun (源泉), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: 面试题 - white elephant gift exchange
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Mon Oct 30 01:55:21 2006)

应该是偶数组赢.可以用归纳法证明偶数组至少能拿到2-2n的偶数(如果奇数组尽量使自
己的数字和大的话).
假设n=k-1的时候成立.并且这2k-2个数字是从3到2n.
最后拿数字的奇数组只能拿3,所以只可能有三种情况:(注)
A) 4被抢过一次.
B) 4被抢过两次.
C) 4被抢过三次.

n=k,考虑多两个数字1和2.两个组抢.图上画一下就知道任何哪种情况偶数组总能拿到4
和2(甚至4和3).

【 在 person (幸福的黄马甲) 的大作中提到: 】
: 上来他问我只不知道white elephant gift exchange,我说不知道,于是他介绍问题
如下
: 设置
: 1. 2n (n>3)个礼物,价值依次为1至2n的整数,标价公开
: 2. 有2n个人,编号1至2n, 人分两组,编号为奇数的一组,编号为偶数的一组
: 3. 胜负:
: 游戏终止时,若编号为奇数的一组拿到礼物总值大于n(n+1),奇数的一组赢
: 若编号为偶数的一组拿到礼物总值大于n * n,偶数的一组赢
: 否则平
: 规则
: 1. 开始时,没有人有礼物,
: ...................



--

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Vishnu
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发信人: Vishnu (Time Dealer), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: 面试题 - white elephant gift exchange
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Mon Oct 30 06:31:16 2006), 转信

A same-group member can grab a high-numbered gift from his own group in
order to secure a gift, can't he?

【 在 zgsun (源泉) 的大作中提到: 】
: 应该是偶数组赢.可以用归纳法证明偶数组至少能拿到2-2n的偶数(如果奇数组尽量使自
: 己的数字和大的话).
: 假设n=k-1的时候成立.并且这2k-2个数字是从3到2n.
: 最后拿数字的奇数组只能拿3,所以只可能有三种情况:(注)
: A) 4被抢过一次.
: B) 4被抢过两次.
: C) 4被抢过三次.
: n=k,考虑多两个数字1和2.两个组抢.图上画一下就知道任何哪种情况偶数组总能拿到
4
: 和2(甚至4和3).
: 如下
: ...................


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发信人: person (幸福的黄马甲), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: 面试题 - white elephant gift exchange
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Mon Oct 30 06:32:08 2006)


谁说得对呢?

【 在 diehard75 (diehard) 的大作中提到: 】
: By the analysis, the even team will leave the gift 2n to player 1 because
: they know they have no chance to keep it.
: So we can reduce the problem to "we have gift 2n-1, 2n-2, ..., 1 and
player
: 2,
: 3, 4,..., 2n." By the same argument, player 2 can keep the gift 2n-1 (
player
: 1 won't take gift 2n-1 since he will take gift 2n).
: So recursively, odd team will have gift 2n, 2n-2, ... 2 and even team will
: have gift 2n-1, 2n-3, .. 1. So in the end, it will be a draw.
: This is just my analysis.


【 在 zgsun (源泉) 的大作中提到: 】
: 应该是偶数组赢.可以用归纳法证明偶数组至少能拿到2-2n的偶数(如果奇数组尽量使自
: 己的数字和大的话).
: 假设n=k-1的时候成立.并且这2k-2个数字是从3到2n.
: 最后拿数字的奇数组只能拿3,所以只可能有三种情况:(注)
: A) 4被抢过一次.
: B) 4被抢过两次.
: C) 4被抢过三次.
: n=k,考虑多两个数字1和2.两个组抢.图上画一下就知道任何哪种情况偶数组总能拿到
4
: 和2(甚至4和3).
: 如下



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发信人: Vishnu (Time Dealer), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: 面试题 - white elephant gift exchange
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Mon Oct 30 06:34:45 2006), 转信

It seems neither is a concrete proof.
【 在 person (幸福的黄马甲) 的大作中提到: 】
: 谁说得对呢?
: player
: player
: 4



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发信人: loveleader (hatefree), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: 面试题 - white elephant gift exchange
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Mon Oct 30 12:10:19 2006), 转信


偶数组赢. 下面是偶地理解,不知道对不对,请指正.
因为偶数组首先开始抢礼物,并且
如果偶数组想赢,就需要至少占据一个偶数号礼物.

因为每个礼物最多被抢三次,并且不能抢刚被抢过地.
所以基本第一次选地都会被抢走,但是除了接近
边界地时候不一样. 所以最后一轮抢夺会决定胜负.

那么偶得策略是: 让2n尽量抢最大地,
然后用2n-2最后中介,尽量hold住最大地,
显然这个最大地会被2n-1最后占有.
但是没有关系,这样可以保证最后会赢.
如果2n-1不这么干,那就更要输.

2n 抢 2n
2n-1 抢 2n-1
2n-2 抢 2n
2n 抢 2n-1
2n-1 抢 2n (2n done)
2n-2 抢 2n-1 (2n-1 done)
2n 抢 2n-2 ....
...
2n 抢 2(win)
1 抢 1.

假设n=4. 抢地过程是这样地:
8 -> 8 ( x-> y means x gets gift y)`
7->7
6->8
8->7
7->8 (8 done)
6->7 (7done)
8->6
5->5
4->6
8->5
5->6 (6done)
4->5 (4done)
8->4
3->3
2->4
8->3
3->4 (4done)
2->3(3done)
8->2 (win)
1->1
game over.
final even group (7,5,3,2) odd group (8,6,4,1)


【 在 person (幸福的黄马甲) 的大作中提到: 】
: 上来他问我只不知道white elephant gift exchange,我说不知道,于是他介绍问题
如下
: 设置
: 1. 2n (n>3)个礼物,价值依次为1至2n的整数,标价公开
: 2. 有2n个人,编号1至2n, 人分两组,编号为奇数的一组,编号为偶数的一组
: 3. 胜负:
: 游戏终止时,若编号为奇数的一组拿到礼物总值大于n(n+1),奇数的一组赢
: 若编号为偶数的一组拿到礼物总值大于n * n,偶数的一组赢
: 否则平
: 规则
: 1. 开始时,没有人有礼物,
: ...................


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发信人: cashine (Who Am I), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: 面试题 - white elephant gift exchange
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Mon Oct 30 14:56:52 2006), 转信

I guess I was wrong in the previous post.
Think of it this way, each gift can be picked or snatched at most three
times, therefore gives a maximum of being in the hand of 4 people.
No one is going to snatch the "1" gift, therefore there are in total 4*(2n-1
)+1 rounds of picking or snatching, which is an odd number, since the
picking or snatching alternates from even to odd, this means the last person
to pick (because all other gifts have been snatched 3 times) will be from
the even group, so they have to pick 1.

The following argument does not apply to the case when people in each group
can snatch from each other.
Now think of the first person, he would not pick the large ones since they
will be snatched and finally in the hands of the opposite, so he should
start from the smallest, i.e., 2, the opposite won't need to snatch it, but
pick 3 instead, then the even group pick 4, none of them need to snatch from
the others because ultimately each group will have exactly what the other
group has after odd number of snatches, before anyone picks 1 and the game
ends.
So I guess the final result will be tied.

【 在 person (幸福的黄马甲) 的大作中提到: 】
: 若even numbers好,the odd side也可以上来就抢even numbers啊
: of



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发信人: cashine (Who Am I), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: 面试题 - white elephant gift exchange
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Mon Oct 30 14:57:51 2006), 转信

Think of 2 people playing the game,
with two gifts, 1 and 2.
you pick first, how can you win?
【 在 loveleader (hatefree) 的大作中提到: 】
: 偶数组赢. 下面是偶地理解,不知道对不对,请指正.
: 因为偶数组首先开始抢礼物,并且
: 如果偶数组想赢,就需要至少占据一个偶数号礼物.
: 因为每个礼物最多被抢三次,并且不能抢刚被抢过地.
: 所以基本第一次选地都会被抢走,但是除了接近
: 边界地时候不一样. 所以最后一轮抢夺会决定胜负.
: 那么偶得策略是: 让2n尽量抢最大地,
: 然后用2n-2最后中介,尽量hold住最大地,
: 显然这个最大地会被2n-1最后占有.
: 但是没有关系,这样可以保证最后会赢.
: ...................


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发信人: skydive (跳跳~~备战备荒为人民), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: 面试题 - white elephant gift exchange
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Mon Oct 30 15:49:31 2006), 转信


n>3

that might matter.


【 在 cashine (Who Am I) 的大作中提到: 】
: Think of 2 people playing the game,
: with two gifts, 1 and 2.
: you pick first, how can you win?



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Russia’s middle class starts spending

Russia’s middle class starts spending

By Neil Buckley

Published: October 30 2006 18:41 | Last updated: October 30 2006 18:41

Just off Revolution Avenue in the Russian city of Voronezh 15 years ago stood a state-owned pelmennaya, a grubby cafe where surly matrons slopped grey dumplings into chipped bowls. Today, it is a franchise of Mango, the Spanish fashion chain – all smoked mirrors, halogen spotlights and low-rise jeans.

“The prices are still quite high for us,” muses Vera Cherkasova, a lawyer with a property company, admiring a tailored woollen cardigan. “But Russian women are prepared to spend a bit on looking nice.”

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Next door, the former Niva food store, which in the Soviet Union’s dying days sold little beyond tinned fish and lumps of lard, is now an Adidas franchise. The once-dowdy Rossiya department store nearby is a mini-mall with franchises of Benetton and Diesel. Grocery shoppers can choose from numerous modern supermarkets, two Russian-owned hypermarkets and a cash-and-carry run by Germany’s Metro. Little by little, cappuccino bars and mobile phone stores, McDonald’s outlets and Irish pubs are transforming this 1m-strong regional capital – even though the roads and other government services are worse than ever.

What is happening in Voronezh, 300 miles south of Moscow, is a powerful new phenomenon. Western-style retailing and international brands, largely confined a decade ago to metropolitan Moscow and St Petersburg, are spreading to cities across Russia. After the hardships of the 1990s, Russia is finally witnessing the rise of a prosperous post-Soviet middle class.

Politically and economically, this has become one of the most important, and least talked-about, trends in Russia today. While international attention has focused on President Vladimir Putin’s increasingly authoritarian approach, that tends to obscure what many Russians believe to be his main legacy – the extent to which they have, materially, become better off under his presidency.

Some international observers feel, moreover, that if democracy, press freedom and the rule of law are to flourish in Russia, that may depend on an assertive middle class pushing for such rights.

Those economic conditions are being created. Although the country is known abroad primarily as an exporter of raw materials, companies from carmakers to cosmetics giants now list Russia alongside China and India among their most dynamic consumer markets.

“What’s happening here is very exciting. We’re running to keep up,” says A G Lafley, chairman of Procter & Gamble, who was in Moscow last month to celebrate the consumer group’s 15th anniversary in Russia. Richard Smyth, general manager in Russia for Mars, echoes this, pointing to new production lines at a $200m (£105m, €157m) chocolate factory south of the capital. “Basically”, he says, “we can’t build it fast enough”.

The consumer boom is the fruit of nearly eight years of economic growth averaging 6.6 per cent – thanks in part to record oil and natural gas prices – since Russia’s debt default and financial crisis in 1998. Real wages and consumer spending are growing twice as fast. The average monthly wage was up 13.6 per cent year-on-year in September to $415 – still low, but four times what it was when Mr Putin became president in 2000.

Low housing and utility costs mean a relatively high proportion of Russians’ wages goes straight into disposable income. A lingering suspicion of banks, born of the 1998 crisis, also means spare cash is more likely to go into flat-screen television sets or washing machines than into savings accounts.

Russians are less wary of borrowing, however. Consumer credit has mushroomed from zero a few years ago to about $40bn – though at barely 5 per cent of gross domestic product, one-tenth of western European levels, there is plenty of room for growth.

Yet despite the progress, yawning inequalities exist – and overall trends are not wholly encouraging. Tatyana Maleva, a sociologist at Moscow’s Independent Institute for Social Policy, led a study in 2000-01 of Russia’s social structure. Analysing salaries and factors such as savings and property ownership, she classed fewer than 1 per cent of Russians as a super-rich elite. At the other extreme, 10 per cent of the 144m population lived in real poverty.

In between, 20 per cent formed a more-or-less comfortable middle class; just under 70 per cent were lower middle class – struggling, but able to afford a few consumer luxuries.

The picture already differed sharply from Soviet times. Then, too, says Ms Maleva, there was a privileged elite and poor underclass. But 80-90 per cent of Russians formed a middle layer where modest income differences were partly smoothed out by the Soviet command economy’s inability to produce goods for people to buy. (Many Russians amassed big rouble savings, only to see them wiped out by hyper­inflation triggered by the 1990s “shock therapy” reforms.)

Six years after her study, Ms Maleva says the overall picture has not changed. Russia’s middle class is still around 20 per cent, but has got richer – because it includes those in thriving economic sectors such as natural resources and banking. The poor class has shrunk a little, thanks partly to government social programmes. But few of the 70 per cent lower middle class have made the jump to the next rung, its members working largely in the public sector or less successful parts of the economy.

“While incomes have been rising, there are those who have been winners and those who received much less,” says Ms Maleva.

But with tens of millions of Russians now having at least a foot in the door of the consumer society, foreign and domestic investors are starting to look beyond oil and gas. Apart from a few big energy and metals deals, acquisitions by Coca-Cola and Heineken and a big domestic retail merger have been among the largest transactions of the past 18 months.

Russia’s “oligarchs” have spotted the consumer market as a growth opportunity largely free of the political risk and state interference now associated with energy. Mikhail Fridman, head of the Alfa Group conglomerate, is a big shareholder in the TNK-BP oil joint venture but has consumer exposure through Alfa Bank and a stake in Vimpelcom, a mobile phone group.

In his biggest consumer venture yet, Mr Fridman in April merged his Perekryostok supermarket chain with Pyaterochka, a St Petersburg-based discounter, to create Russia’s biggest grocery retailer with nearly 900 stores and a target of $6bn annual sales by 2008.

“We believe retailing generally, and especially food retailing, will develop very fast here. And we are at the leading edge,” says Mr Fridman.

Even $6bn sales would give the chain only a few percentage points of a large but unconsolidated food retail market, which the Economist Intelligence Unit forecasts will grow from $113bn last year to $203bn in 2010. It expects total retail sales will double in the same period from $245bn to $526bn – taking Russia from 12th- to ninth-biggest retail market in the world.

With “modern” formats – rather than markets, street kiosks or unrefurbished Soviet-era stores – accounting for less than one-third of the retail market, the opportunity is huge.

Strangely, perhaps, retailing’s global giants have been slow to take up the challenge. Wal-Mart of the US, France’s Carrefour and the UK’s Tesco have so far stayed away, citing the risks and difficulties of operating in Russia. But Auchan of France, Germany’s Rewe as well as Metro and Turkey’s Migros Turk have all entered the Russian grocery market. France’s Leroy Merlin, Germany’s OBI and the UK-based Kingfisher are chasing consumers’ roubles in the home improvement sector. Britain’s Dixons last year acquired an option to buy Eldorado, a Russian electrical retailer, for $1.9bn by 2011.

Sweden’s Ikea is playing a pioneering role by developing not just its own furniture stores but shopping malls alongside, housing partner retailers such as Auchan and OBI, multiplex cinemas and fast food courts. After three such Mega-Malls opened in Moscow since 2002 and one in Kazan, more are due to arrive over the next year in other 1m-plus cities – St Petersburg, Nizhny Novgorod, Yekaterinburg, Samara, Rostov-on-Don and Novosibirsk.

While other foreign retailers dither, budding Russian chains are scurrying to raise expansion capital before the competition arrives. Retailers are well represented among the flood of Russian initial public offerings on the London Stock Exchange.

In a headquarters surrounded by new shopping centres and apartments in a St Petersburg suburb, Oleg Zherebtsov, chief executive of Lenta, is one such retailer. He jokes that when his chain opened its first warehouse-style store in 1999, “we thought we had invented the concept”. Now aware that it did not introduce hypermarket retailing to the world, Lenta still hopes to pioneer it in many Russian cities. It opened last month in Astrakhan and Novosibirsk, adding to nine existing St Petersburg hypermarkets with $700m annual sales.

Foreigners already dominate some consumer segments. Scottish & Newcastle and Carlsberg – which jointly own Baltika, the market leader – along with InBev and Heineken control much of a beer market that has doubled since 1999 to become the world’s fifth biggest.

Similar changes are now expected in higher-value sectors. Sales of foreign cars grew 58 per cent last year to about 400,000, overtaking sales of local brands for the first time, and Boston Consulting Group forecasts they will reach 900,000 by 2010. That could put pressure on Avtovaz, maker of the Lada, which still churns out 70 per cent of all cars assembled in Russia.

Avtovaz is a rare case of state intervention in a consumer segment: Rosoboronexport, a state arms agency, seized control of the struggling Soviet-era behemoth last year and pledged huge investment. That may reflect the social and political importance of a manufacturer employing 120,000 and reckoned directly or indirectly to support up to half a million people.

But the government has encouraged foreign manufacturers to open assembly plants, provided they use some local components. Ford is adding more expensive models to lines that produce the Focus, Russia’s best-selling foreign car. VW, Toyota, Nissan, General Motors and China’s Great Wall are among 15 foreign manufacturers with existing or planned assembly lines, set to double the country’s output to 2m cars a year within a few years.

As Russians get richer, entertainment and travel should also flourish. Restaurant menus are being translated into Russian in resorts across Europe, while Turkey and Egypt are becoming to Russians what Spain was for Britons in the 1970s. Mohamed Rachid, Egypt’s trade minister, says 1m Russians visited last year, and the total could reach 1.5m in two years.

“Russian tourists coming to Egypt are the highest spenders,” he adds. “They might take cheaper packages, but once there they spend more than all the other Europeans.”

Could today’s boom be followed by a 1998-style bust? With Russia’s public coffers overflowing with petrodollars, and big efforts in recent years to reduce debts, a default looks a remote possibility. But dependence on energy and raw material exports makes the economy vulnerable to any correction in commodity prices. Even if the good times continue, growth in disposable incomes is expected to slow towards the level of overall GDP growth by about 2010.

One other big question remains: Why is Russia’s Mango-clad, Ford-driving, Egypt-holidaying middle class not becoming more politically assertive? Some suggest Russians are too busy enjoying the comparative stability and prosperity the Putin years have brought to protest about the accompanying erosion of political and media freedom.

“In the early 1990s our people were paupers – and it’s ridiculous to say they were free,” Vladislav Surkov, a senior aide to Mr Putin seen as the Kremlin’s chief ideologist, said recently. “When you have a car to ride in and things to buy – that’s freedom.”

A poll this month by the Levada Center, an independent pollster, showed how successful United Russia, the political party whose main credo is loyalty to Mr Putin, has been at capturing the support of the middle class (which Levada estimates at 15 per cent of the population rather than 20 per cent).

Middle-class support for United Russia was 55 per cent, against 48 per cent among the rest of the population. And support for the Communist party in the middle class was markedly lower than by others (8.5 per cent against 22 per cent). Support for the liberal Yabloko party – perhaps the closest Russia has to a western-style social democratic party – was a mere 5 per cent among the middle class and 3 per cent among the rest.

Stephen Jennings, chief executive of Renaissance Capital, a Moscow investment bank, believes pressure for change may grow out of more prosaic, but concrete, issues.

“You have a good job, you have money, you have a nice dacha, but you can’t get there because the roads are so terrible,” he says. “I think the next big wave of change will be more bottom-up. That’s why this middle-class phenomenon is so powerful.”

Thursday, October 26, 2006

Global bond markets rally on Fed outlook

Global bond markets rally on Fed outlook

By Michael Mackenzie in New York and David Turner in Tokyo

Published: October 26 2006 18:29 | Last updated: October 26 2006 21:45

Global bond markets rallied as investors on Thursday cheered the Federal Reserve’s less strident tone on inflation and prepared for weaker US growth data on Friday.

The US central bank failed to deliver the kind of tough statement investors were fearing when it held interest rates steady on Wednesday. That sparked a relief rally in bonds that continued on Thursday as investors focused on third quarter gross domestic product data, due on Friday. Bullish sentiment also helped absorb the sale of new five-year Treasury notes.

“The market is trading expectations of weaker growth and the whisper number for third quarter growth is about 1.5 per cent,” said Richard Gilhooly, senior fixed income strategist at BNP Paribas. The consensus estimate among economists is about 2.2 per cent.

“The Fed’s statement suggests we saw more of a dip in growth for the quarter than some expected.”

The 10-year US Treasury was yielding 4.725 per cent, down 4.4 basis points. US data showing orders for all durables excluding transportation goods rose just 0.1 per cent in September helped push up bond prices.

New homes sales surprisingly rose for a second month although investors were more focused on the sharp fall in house prices over the past year.

In Europe, bond prices were higher and yields lower as the Fed statement was digested. The 10-year bund yield fell 1bp to 3.85 per cent and the 10-year gilt yielded 4.66 per cent, down 4bp.

Jean-Claude Trichet, European Central Bank president, said the bank expected inflation would stay high this year and during 2007.

Japanese government bonds rallied in response to overnight strength in US Treasuries and short-covering ahead of Friday’s Japanese consumer price figures. The 10-year yield dropped 5bp to 1.750 per cent.

Consumer price deflation ended last year but core inflation has made slow progress in Japan, up to only 0.3 per cent in August.

Shorter-dated bonds were supported by an auction of Y1,700bn in two-years, with demand four times higher than supply. The yield on the benchmark two-year fell 0.3bp to 0.755 per cent.

Tuesday, October 24, 2006

How private equity can help its case

How private equity can help its case

By Roberto Quarto

Published: October 24 2006 19:45 | Last updated: October 24 2006 19:45

Hardly a day goes by that we do not read of yet another astonishing private equity record being broken – largest deal, largest fund, highest return, largest leverage.

Yet this scaling of the asset class brings its own challenges. Sellers have become savvier, humbled by selling too low to private equity buyers. The sheer weight of funds in the industry is driving up prices. This combination means that the industry will struggle in future to maintain the stellar return levels seen in the past.

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Scale also brings reputational challenges. A senior German politician branded the industry (loosely, though tellingly, bracketed with hedge funds) as “locusts”. Regulators have started to take a keener interest in the industry, as have policymakers. Finance ministers see a chance to increase the tax take, while others argue that increased power requires greater transparency and accountability.

How will private equity meet these twin challenges – sustaining returns and reputation – in the years ahead?

The industry will have to spend more time explaining itself – and not just to existing investors. This process is already under way and will no doubt go much further still. The price of success is that private equity will become a little less private.

But the case for private equity goes well beyond public relations. It rests on the simple proposition that private equity ownership is a force for economic good because it helps build better businesses – ones that deliver better products and services, generating more sustainable employment, allowing for bigger profits and higher taxes. In short, we make money because we make businesses better.

Whatever challenges private equity may face at present, there are a lot of businesses, especially in Europe, that need improving. They can and will benefit from the structural advantages and disciplines of private equity ownership.

Private equity can unquestionably be an engine of constructive change, a form of transitional ownership that facilitates corporate restructuring as unwieldy conglomerates divest non-core businesses.

Properly done, it can change the way businesses and people perform, transforming mediocre operations into top performers. An example would be Rexel – an electrical goods distribution business bought from Pinault Printemps Re-doute two years ago by Clayton Dubilier & Rice and partners. It was in good shape then, but PPR was a luxury goods business where Rexel was always going to be unloved. It is now the undisputed world leader in the industry, helped by the new ownership, which has acted as a catalyst for constructive change in a way that was simply not possible before. There are no losers here.

This ability to improve underlying operating performance, as well as the growth profile, of investee companies is not just something that plays well in the court of public opinion. It is also increasingly likely to be what investors seek out as the most probable guarantor of superior performance over the economic cycle.

Recent years, of course, have been very benign for private equity – the combination of accommodating debt markets and rising equity markets has certainly helped boost returns. Few believe, though, that these conditions can persist indefinitely.

The ability to improve operating performance in investee companies is a key competitive advantage. Perhaps it is no coincidence, given where we are in the industry cycle, that firms are increasingly keen to lay claim to an operating capability.

This is not to say that CD&R, like other private equity firms, does not apply financial leverage to its investments as part of the model to deliver superior returns for pension funds, endowments and other investors. It does. But that is only part of the story. Historically there have been three key elements which have mitigated risk with highly leveraged buyouts: detailed due diligence, intensely negotiated and detailed contractual arrangements, and absolute control in the ongoing entity for the investor.

But this process takes time and a cash-rich industry is increasingly under pressure to invest its funds. In part, this is what lies behind the rise of club deals, where investors band together to buy larger businesses, like the recently announced $33.6bn purchase of HCA, while spreading risk.

Of themselves, these are not good or bad trends. But they do represent moves away from the core buyout model of investing that was at the heart of private equity investing, and may involve embracing more risk than appears to be the case at present.

So while the relatively young private equity industry still enjoys great opportunities, particularly in Europe, it is also experiencing growth which is posing fresh challenges, not least to the way the industry operates.

It seems increasingly likely that if private equity is to sustain the returns that generated growth in the first place and maintain its public “licence to operate”, we will be hearing more talk of industrial skills and a little less about the magic of debt markets.

The writer is a partner at Clayton, Dubilier & Rice, a board member at BAE Systems and chairman of BBA Group

Saturday, October 21, 2006

Taylor Expansion

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/TaylorSeries.html
Sqrt(37) =??




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首页 - 分类讨论区 - - 金融工程版 - 同主题阅读文章 首页 同主题阅读:another interview question [版面:金融工程] [首篇作者:zhuzhu111] , 2006年10月12日13:42:19 [首页] [上页] [下页] [末页] [分页: 1 2 ] zhuzhu111
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'); document.write('标 题: another interview question
'); document.write('发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 13:42:19 2006)
'); document.write('
'); document.write('how to get the numerical answer of sqrt(37)=6.08276....
'); document.write('(怎么用代数方法解37开平方)
'); document.write('thanks.
'); document.write('--
'); document.write('
'); document.write('※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 http://mitbbs.com·[FROM: 160.39.]
'); 发信人: zhuzhu111 (猪猪), 信区: Quant
标 题: another interview question
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 13:42:19 2006)

how to get the numerical answer of sqrt(37)=6.08276....
(怎么用代数方法解37开平方)
thanks.
--

※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 http://mitbbs.com·[FROM: 160.39.]

美国嘉盛FOREX.COM 为您提供精准汇市分析, 模拟账户免费注册 emacs
身份:用户 上站次数:66 发表文章:14 篇 经验值:175 表现值:14 生命力:117 我的博客 [回复文章] [回信给作者] [本篇全文] [进入讨论区] [返回顶部] [删除文章] [转寄] [转贴] [ 2 ] document.write('发信人: emacs (VC), 信区: Quant
'); document.write('标 题: Re: another interview question
'); document.write('发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 17:00:52 2006)
'); document.write('
'); document.write('I guess the general method should be Newton-Raphson.
'); document.write('sqrt is a common question being asked in interview, think about sqrt(2) and
'); document.write('sqrt(3).
'); document.write('Another direct method is trial & error, similar to bisection method....
'); document.write('--
'); document.write('
'); document.write('※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 http://mitbbs.com·[FROM: 129.77.]
'); 发信人: emacs (VC), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: another interview question
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 17:00:52 2006)

I guess the general method should be Newton-Raphson.
sqrt is a common question being asked in interview, think about sqrt(2) and
sqrt(3).
Another direct method is trial & error, similar to bisection method....
--

※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 http://mitbbs.com·[FROM: 129.77.]
matII
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'); document.write('标 题: Re: another interview question
'); document.write('发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 16:30:32 2006)
'); document.write('
'); document.write('I thought this is the official method...
'); document.write('Asymptotic analysis, it\'s a systematic method to do
'); document.write('approximating calculations with paper and pen.
'); document.write('
'); document.write('For this particular case, the procedure is actually identical as
'); document.write('Newton-Raphson.
'); document.write('
'); document.write('【 在 halo (凭栏谁忆旧江东) 的大作中提到: 】
'); document.write(': I mean just repeating the procedure mentioned by Matll, hehe, not an
'); document.write('officical method.
'); document.write('
'); document.write('
'); document.write('
'); document.write('--
'); document.write('In this turbulent world,
'); document.write(' you are my dependable attractor.
'); document.write('
'); document.write('
'); document.write('※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 http://mitbbs.com·[FROM: 128.54.]
'); 发信人: matII (当归), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: another interview question
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 16:30:32 2006)

I thought this is the official method...
Asymptotic analysis, it's a systematic method to do
approximating calculations with paper and pen.

For this particular case, the procedure is actually identical as
Newton-Raphson.

【 在 halo (凭栏谁忆旧江东) 的大作中提到: 】
: I mean just repeating the procedure mentioned by Matll, hehe, not an
officical method.



--
In this turbulent world,
you are my dependable attractor.


※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 http://mitbbs.com·[FROM: 128.54.]
bushel
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'); document.write('标 题: Re: another interview question
'); document.write('发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 16:12:25 2006), 转信
'); document.write('
'); document.write('楼主那个题目,真的是用代数方法么?
'); document.write('还是让楼主说详细点吧。
'); document.write('
'); document.write('或者用拟牛顿法也可以阿。加减乘除很快的
'); document.write('
'); document.write('【 在 ThatYear (那年) 的大作中提到: 】
'); document.write(': 标 题: Re: another interview question
'); document.write(': 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 16:10:46 2006), 转信
'); document.write(':
'); document.write(': 我抬杠, 牛顿发要用到导数. 不算代数方法
'); document.write(':
'); document.write(': 【 在 bushel (失乐园) 的大作中提到: 】
'); document.write(': : 阿?
'); document.write(': : 还有更直接的?我觉得牛顿法就够直接了
'); document.write(': : 取x0=6
'); document.write(': : x1=6-(-1)/12,跟那谁的一样
'); document.write(': : x2继续叠带,很快就能收敛到interviewers的那个数值了
'); document.write(':
'); document.write(':
'); document.write(': --
'); document.write(':
'); document.write(': 如果我死了, 请不要来我的葬礼.
'); document.write(':
'); document.write(':
'); document.write(':
'); document.write(': ※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 mitbbs.com·[FROM: 134.74.]
'); 发信人: bushel (失乐园), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: another interview question
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 16:12:25 2006), 转信

楼主那个题目,真的是用代数方法么?
还是让楼主说详细点吧。

或者用拟牛顿法也可以阿。加减乘除很快的

【 在 ThatYear (那年) 的大作中提到: 】
: 标 题: Re: another interview question
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 16:10:46 2006), 转信
:
: 我抬杠, 牛顿发要用到导数. 不算代数方法
:
: 【 在 bushel (失乐园) 的大作中提到: 】
: : 阿?
: : 还有更直接的?我觉得牛顿法就够直接了
: : 取x0=6
: : x1=6-(-1)/12,跟那谁的一样
: : x2继续叠带,很快就能收敛到interviewers的那个数值了
:
:
: --
:
: 如果我死了, 请不要来我的葬礼.
:
:
:
: ※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 mitbbs.com·[FROM: 134.74.]
zhuzhu111
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'); document.write('标 题: Re: another interview question
'); document.write('发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 15:43:17 2006)
'); document.write('
'); document.write('oh...got it..but could u explain more about how to get higher precision?
'); document.write('Thanks:)
'); document.write('【 在 matII (当归) 的大作中提到: 】
'); document.write(': asymptotic analysis吧。
'); document.write(': 假设(6+x)^2=37, x很小。
'); document.write(': 得到x^2+12x-1=0
'); document.write(': 由于x很小,x^2项可以扔掉。
'); document.write(': 所以x=1/12.
'); document.write(': 这个给出6.083的结果,not bad。
'); document.write(': 想要更高阶的精度,就用这个x做同样的但是更高阶的分析就可以。
'); document.write('
'); document.write('
'); document.write('
'); document.write('--
'); document.write('
'); document.write('※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 http://mitbbs.com·[FROM: 160.39.]
'); 发信人: zhuzhu111 (猪猪), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: another interview question
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 15:43:17 2006)

oh...got it..but could u explain more about how to get higher precision?
Thanks:)
【 在 matII (当归) 的大作中提到: 】
: asymptotic analysis吧。
: 假设(6+x)^2=37, x很小。
: 得到x^2+12x-1=0
: 由于x很小,x^2项可以扔掉。
: 所以x=1/12.
: 这个给出6.083的结果,not bad。
: 想要更高阶的精度,就用这个x做同样的但是更高阶的分析就可以。



--

※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 http://mitbbs.com·[FROM: 160.39.]
StarVenus 身份:版主 上站次数:8573 发表文章:12015 篇 经验值:16856 表现值:51 生命力:666 我的博客 [回复文章] [回信给作者] [本篇全文] [进入讨论区] [返回顶部] [删除文章] [转寄] [转贴] [ 6 ] document.write('发信人: StarVenus (参商*美洲河岸治安联防), 信区: Quant
'); document.write('标 题: Re: another interview question
'); document.write('发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 15:44:25 2006)
'); document.write('
'); document.write('you didn\'t learn it in middle school?
'); document.write('the idea is (a+b)^2=a^2+2ab+ ...
'); document.write('
'); document.write('【 在 zhuzhu111 (猪猪) 的大作中提到: 】
'); document.write(': how to get the numerical answer of sqrt(37)=6.08276....
'); document.write(': (怎么用代数方法解37开平方)
'); document.write(': thanks.
'); document.write('
'); document.write('
'); document.write('
'); document.write('--
'); document.write('
'); document.write('※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 http://mitbbs.com·[FROM: 171.159.]
'); 发信人: StarVenus (参商*美洲河岸治安联防), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: another interview question
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 15:44:25 2006)

you didn't learn it in middle school?
the idea is (a+b)^2=a^2+2ab+ ...

【 在 zhuzhu111 (猪猪) 的大作中提到: 】
: how to get the numerical answer of sqrt(37)=6.08276....
: (怎么用代数方法解37开平方)
: thanks.



--

※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 http://mitbbs.com·[FROM: 171.159.]
halo
身份:用户 上站次数:2159 发表文章:2115 篇 经验值:3871 表现值:35 生命力:365 我的博客 [回复文章] [回信给作者] [本篇全文] [进入讨论区] [返回顶部] [删除文章] [转寄] [转贴] [ 7 ] document.write('发信人: halo (凭栏谁忆旧江东), 信区: Quant
'); document.write('标 题: Re: another interview question
'); document.write('发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 15:52:23 2006)
'); document.write('
'); document.write('(6+1/12+y)^2=37?
'); document.write('【 在 zhuzhu111 (猪猪) 的大作中提到: 】
'); document.write(': oh...got it..but could u explain more about how to get higher precision?
'); document.write(': Thanks:)
'); document.write('
'); document.write('
'); document.write('
'); document.write('--
'); document.write('
'); document.write('※ 修改:·halo 於 Oct 12 15:53:02 2006 修改本文·[FROM: 129.137.]
'); document.write('※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 http://mitbbs.com·[FROM: 129.137.]
'); 发信人: halo (凭栏谁忆旧江东), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: another interview question
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 15:52:23 2006)

(6+1/12+y)^2=37?
【 在 zhuzhu111 (猪猪) 的大作中提到: 】
: oh...got it..but could u explain more about how to get higher precision?
: Thanks:)



--

※ 修改:·halo 於 Oct 12 15:53:02 2006 修改本文·[FROM: 129.137.]
※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 http://mitbbs.com·[FROM: 129.137.]
bushel
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'); document.write('标 题: Re: another interview question
'); document.write('发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 15:56:16 2006), 转信
'); document.write('
'); document.write('那不是要开另外一个更复杂的平方么?
'); document.write('
'); document.write('【 在 halo (凭栏谁忆旧江东) 的大作中提到: 】
'); document.write(': (6+1/12+y)^2=37?
'); document.write('
'); document.write('
'); document.write('
'); document.write('--
'); document.write('
'); document.write('※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 mitbbs.com·[FROM: 71.58.]
'); 发信人: bushel (失乐园), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: another interview question
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 15:56:16 2006), 转信

那不是要开另外一个更复杂的平方么?

【 在 halo (凭栏谁忆旧江东) 的大作中提到: 】
: (6+1/12+y)^2=37?



--

※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 mitbbs.com·[FROM: 71.58.]
halo
身份:用户 上站次数:2159 发表文章:2115 篇 经验值:3871 表现值:35 生命力:365 我的博客 [回复文章] [回信给作者] [本篇全文] [进入讨论区] [返回顶部] [删除文章] [转寄] [转贴] [ 9 ] document.write('发信人: halo (凭栏谁忆旧江东), 信区: Quant
'); document.write('标 题: Re: another interview question
'); document.write('发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 15:52:23 2006)
'); document.write('
'); document.write('(6+1/12+y)^2=37?
'); document.write('【 在 zhuzhu111 (猪猪) 的大作中提到: 】
'); document.write(': oh...got it..but could u explain more about how to get higher precision?
'); document.write(': Thanks:)
'); document.write('
'); document.write('
'); document.write('
'); document.write('--
'); document.write('
'); document.write('※ 修改:·halo 於 Oct 12 15:53:02 2006 修改本文·[FROM: 129.137.]
'); document.write('※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 http://mitbbs.com·[FROM: 129.137.]
'); 发信人: halo (凭栏谁忆旧江东), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: another interview question
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 15:52:23 2006)

(6+1/12+y)^2=37?
【 在 zhuzhu111 (猪猪) 的大作中提到: 】
: oh...got it..but could u explain more about how to get higher precision?
: Thanks:)



--

※ 修改:·halo 於 Oct 12 15:53:02 2006 修改本文·[FROM: 129.137.]
※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 http://mitbbs.com·[FROM: 129.137.]
bushel
身份:用户 上站次数:2033 发表文章:2463 篇 经验值:7635 表现值:21 生命力:666 我的博客 [回复文章] [回信给作者] [本篇全文] [进入讨论区] [返回顶部] [删除文章] [转寄] [转贴] [ 10 ] document.write('发信人: bushel (失乐园), 信区: Quant
'); document.write('标 题: Re: another interview question
'); document.write('发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 16:08:21 2006), 转信
'); document.write('
'); document.write('阿?
'); document.write('还有更直接的?我觉得牛顿法就够直接了
'); document.write('取x0=6
'); document.write('x1=6-(-1)/12,跟那谁的一样
'); document.write('x2继续叠带,很快就能收敛到interviewers的那个数值了
'); document.write('
'); document.write('【 在 halo (凭栏谁忆旧江东) 的大作中提到: 】
'); document.write(': Interviewers may like some direct thought.
'); document.write('
'); document.write('
'); document.write('
'); document.write('--
'); document.write('
'); document.write('※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 mitbbs.com·[FROM: 71.58.]
'); 发信人: bushel (失乐园), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: another interview question
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 16:08:21 2006), 转信

阿?
还有更直接的?我觉得牛顿法就够直接了
取x0=6
x1=6-(-1)/12,跟那谁的一样
x2继续叠带,很快就能收敛到interviewers的那个数值了

【 在 halo (凭栏谁忆旧江东) 的大作中提到: 】
: Interviewers may like some direct thought.



--

※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 mitbbs.com·[FROM: 71.58.]
halo
身份:用户 上站次数:2159 发表文章:2115 篇 经验值:3871 表现值:35 生命力:365 我的博客 [回复文章] [回信给作者] [本篇全文] [进入讨论区] [返回顶部] [删除文章] [转寄] [转贴] [ 11 ] document.write('发信人: halo (凭栏谁忆旧江东), 信区: Quant
'); document.write('标 题: Re: another interview question
'); document.write('发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 15:52:23 2006)
'); document.write('
'); document.write('(6+1/12+y)^2=37?
'); document.write('【 在 zhuzhu111 (猪猪) 的大作中提到: 】
'); document.write(': oh...got it..but could u explain more about how to get higher precision?
'); document.write(': Thanks:)
'); document.write('
'); document.write('
'); document.write('
'); document.write('--
'); document.write('
'); document.write('※ 修改:·halo 於 Oct 12 15:53:02 2006 修改本文·[FROM: 129.137.]
'); document.write('※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 http://mitbbs.com·[FROM: 129.137.]
'); 发信人: halo (凭栏谁忆旧江东), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: another interview question
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 15:52:23 2006)

(6+1/12+y)^2=37?
【 在 zhuzhu111 (猪猪) 的大作中提到: 】
: oh...got it..but could u explain more about how to get higher precision?
: Thanks:)



--

※ 修改:·halo 於 Oct 12 15:53:02 2006 修改本文·[FROM: 129.137.]
※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 http://mitbbs.com·[FROM: 129.137.]
bushel
身份:用户 上站次数:2033 发表文章:2463 篇 经验值:7635 表现值:21 生命力:666 我的博客 [回复文章] [回信给作者] [本篇全文] [进入讨论区] [返回顶部] [删除文章] [转寄] [转贴] [ 12 ] document.write('发信人: bushel (失乐园), 信区: Quant
'); document.write('标 题: Re: another interview question
'); document.write('发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 15:17:50 2006), 转信
'); document.write('
'); document.write('到底是数值方法还是代数方法?
'); document.write('
'); document.write('【 在 zhuzhu111 (猪猪) 的大作中提到: 】
'); document.write(': how to get the numerical answer of sqrt(37)=6.08276....
'); document.write(': (怎么用代数方法解37开平方)
'); document.write(': thanks.
'); document.write('
'); document.write('
'); document.write('
'); document.write('--
'); document.write('
'); document.write('※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 mitbbs.com·[FROM: 71.58.]
'); 发信人: bushel (失乐园), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: another interview question
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 15:17:50 2006), 转信

到底是数值方法还是代数方法?

【 在 zhuzhu111 (猪猪) 的大作中提到: 】
: how to get the numerical answer of sqrt(37)=6.08276....
: (怎么用代数方法解37开平方)
: thanks.



--

※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 mitbbs.com·[FROM: 71.58.]
bushel
身份:用户 上站次数:2033 发表文章:2463 篇 经验值:7635 表现值:21 生命力:666 我的博客 [回复文章] [回信给作者] [本篇全文] [进入讨论区] [返回顶部] [删除文章] [转寄] [转贴] [ 13 ] document.write('发信人: bushel (失乐园), 信区: Quant
'); document.write('标 题: Re: another interview question
'); document.write('发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 16:02:34 2006), 转信
'); document.write('
'); document.write('直接用牛顿法不是很好?呵呵
'); document.write('
'); document.write('【 在 halo (凭栏谁忆旧江东) 的大作中提到: 】
'); document.write(': 标 题: Re: another interview question
'); document.write(': 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 15:59:27 2006)
'); document.write(':
'); document.write(': I mean just repeating the procedure mentioned by Matll, hehe, not an
'); document.write('officical method.
'); document.write(': 【 在 bushel (失乐园) 的大作中提到: 】
'); document.write(': : 那不是要开另外一个更复杂的平方么?
'); document.write(':
'); document.write(':
'); document.write(':
'); document.write(': --
'); document.write(':
'); document.write(': ※ 修改:·halo 於 Oct 12 16:00:00 2006 修改本文·[FROM: 129.137.]
'); document.write(': ※ 修改:·halo 於 Oct 12 16:01:15 2006 修改本文·[FROM: 129.137.]
'); document.write(': ※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 http://mitbbs.com·[FROM: 129.137.]
'); 发信人: bushel (失乐园), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: another interview question
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 16:02:34 2006), 转信

直接用牛顿法不是很好?呵呵

【 在 halo (凭栏谁忆旧江东) 的大作中提到: 】
: 标 题: Re: another interview question
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 15:59:27 2006)
:
: I mean just repeating the procedure mentioned by Matll, hehe, not an
officical method.
: 【 在 bushel (失乐园) 的大作中提到: 】
: : 那不是要开另外一个更复杂的平方么?
:
:
:
: --
:
: ※ 修改:·halo 於 Oct 12 16:00:00 2006 修改本文·[FROM: 129.137.]
: ※ 修改:·halo 於 Oct 12 16:01:15 2006 修改本文·[FROM: 129.137.]
: ※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 http://mitbbs.com·[FROM: 129.137.]
matII
身份:用户 上站次数:498 发表文章:136 篇 经验值:2444 表现值:5 生命力:658 我的博客 [回复文章] [回信给作者] [本篇全文] [进入讨论区] [返回顶部] [删除文章] [转寄] [转贴] [ 14 ] document.write('发信人: matII (当归), 信区: Quant
'); document.write('标 题: Re: another interview question
'); document.write('发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 14:12:15 2006)
'); document.write('
'); document.write('asymptotic analysis吧。
'); document.write('假设(6+x)^2=37, x很小。
'); document.write('得到x^2+12x-1=0
'); document.write('由于x很小,x^2项可以扔掉。
'); document.write('所以x=1/12.
'); document.write('这个给出6.083的结果,not bad。
'); document.write('想要更高阶的精度,就用这个x做同样的但是更高阶的分析就可以。
'); document.write('
'); document.write('【 在 zhuzhu111 (猪猪) 的大作中提到: 】
'); document.write(': how to get the numerical answer of sqrt(37)=6.08276....
'); document.write(': (怎么用代数方法解37开平方)
'); document.write(': thanks.
'); document.write('
'); document.write('
'); document.write('
'); document.write('--
'); document.write('In this turbulent world,
'); document.write(' you are my dependable attractor.
'); document.write('
'); document.write('
'); document.write('※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 http://mitbbs.com·[FROM: 128.54.]
'); 发信人: matII (当归), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: another interview question
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 14:12:15 2006)

asymptotic analysis吧。
假设(6+x)^2=37, x很小。
得到x^2+12x-1=0
由于x很小,x^2项可以扔掉。
所以x=1/12.
这个给出6.083的结果,not bad。
想要更高阶的精度,就用这个x做同样的但是更高阶的分析就可以。

【 在 zhuzhu111 (猪猪) 的大作中提到: 】
: how to get the numerical answer of sqrt(37)=6.08276....
: (怎么用代数方法解37开平方)
: thanks.



--
In this turbulent world,
you are my dependable attractor.


※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 http://mitbbs.com·[FROM: 128.54.]
foxtan
身份:用户 上站次数:9 发表文章:9 篇 经验值:296 表现值:10 生命力:112 我的博客 [回复文章] [回信给作者] [本篇全文] [进入讨论区] [返回顶部] [删除文章] [转寄] [转贴] [ 15 ] document.write('发信人: foxtan (随便拉), 信区: Quant
'); document.write('标 题: Re: another interview question
'); document.write('发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 16:36:25 2006)
'); document.write('
'); document.write('如果除法允许的话,也可以用Taylor Series 因为 sqrt(36)=6.
'); document.write('
'); document.write('sqrt(37)=sqrt(36) + (1/2)*(sqrt(36))^(-1)+(1/2)*(-1/4)*(sqrt(36))^(-3)+...
'); document.write('--
'); document.write('
'); document.write('※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 http://mitbbs.com·[FROM: 128.211.]
'); 发信人: foxtan (随便拉), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: another interview question
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 16:36:25 2006)

如果除法允许的话,也可以用Taylor Series 因为 sqrt(36)=6.

sqrt(37)=sqrt(36) + (1/2)*(sqrt(36))^(-1)+(1/2)*(-1/4)*(sqrt(36))^(-3)+...
--

※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 http://mitbbs.com·[FROM: 128.211.]
emacs
身份:用户 上站次数:66 发表文章:14 篇 经验值:175 表现值:14 生命力:117 我的博客 [回复文章] [回信给作者] [本篇全文] [进入讨论区] [返回顶部] [删除文章] [转寄] [转贴] [ 16 ] document.write('发信人: emacs (VC), 信区: Quant
'); document.write('标 题: Re: another interview question
'); document.write('发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 14:07:08 2006)
'); document.write('
'); document.write('Newton-Raphson Method: X^2-37=0
'); document.write('
'); document.write('--
'); document.write('
'); document.write('※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 http://mitbbs.com·[FROM: 129.77.]
'); 发信人: emacs (VC), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: another interview question
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 14:07:08 2006)

Newton-Raphson Method: X^2-37=0

--

※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 http://mitbbs.com·[FROM: 129.77.]
bushel
身份:用户 上站次数:2033 发表文章:2463 篇 经验值:7635 表现值:21 生命力:666 我的博客 [回复文章] [回信给作者] [本篇全文] [进入讨论区] [返回顶部] [删除文章] [转寄] [转贴] [ 17 ] document.write('发信人: bushel (失乐园), 信区: Quant
'); document.write('标 题: Re: another interview question
'); document.write('发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 17:40:47 2006), 转信
'); document.write('
'); document.write('这个方法也不错
'); document.write('嗯
'); document.write('【 在 foxtan (随便拉) 的大作中提到: 】
'); document.write(': 如果除法允许的话,也可以用Taylor Series 因为 sqrt(36)=6.
'); document.write(': sqrt(37)=sqrt(36) + (1/2)*(sqrt(36))^(-1)+(1/2)*(-1/4)*(sqrt(36))^(-3)+...
'); document.write('
'); document.write('
'); document.write('
'); document.write('--
'); document.write('
'); document.write('※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 mitbbs.com·[FROM: 71.58.]
'); 发信人: bushel (失乐园), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: another interview question
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 17:40:47 2006), 转信

这个方法也不错

【 在 foxtan (随便拉) 的大作中提到: 】
: 如果除法允许的话,也可以用Taylor Series 因为 sqrt(36)=6.
: sqrt(37)=sqrt(36) + (1/2)*(sqrt(36))^(-1)+(1/2)*(-1/4)*(sqrt(36))^(-3)+...



--

※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 mitbbs.com·[FROM: 71.58.]
aos
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'); document.write('标 题: Re: another interview question
'); document.write('发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 22:32:14 2006), 转信
'); document.write('
'); document.write('呵呵,发觉是一道数分题...
'); document.write('taylor展开...
'); document.write('
'); document.write('【 在 zhuzhu111 (猪猪) 的大作中提到: 】
'); document.write(': how to get the numerical answer of sqrt(37)=6.08276....
'); document.write(': (怎么用代数方法解37开平方)
'); document.write(': thanks.
'); document.write('
'); document.write('
'); document.write('
'); document.write('--
'); document.write('
'); document.write('※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 mitbbs.com·[FROM: 24.195.]
'); 发信人: aos (aos), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: another interview question
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 22:32:14 2006), 转信

呵呵,发觉是一道数分题...
taylor展开...

【 在 zhuzhu111 (猪猪) 的大作中提到: 】
: how to get the numerical answer of sqrt(37)=6.08276....
: (怎么用代数方法解37开平方)
: thanks.



--

※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 mitbbs.com·[FROM: 24.195.]
txdqpal
身份:用户 上站次数:806 发表文章:534 篇 经验值:2987 表现值:10 生命力:665 我的博客 [回复文章] [回信给作者] [本篇全文] [进入讨论区] [返回顶部] [删除文章] [转寄] [转贴] [ 19 ] document.write('发信人: txdqpal (txdq), 信区: Quant
'); document.write('标 题: Re: another interview question
'); document.write('发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Fri Oct 13 16:16:08 2006)
'); document.write('
'); document.write('用初中那个竖式开平方没有必要吧, 我觉得泰勒展开就是代数方法, 他们考察的就是
'); document.write('能不能快速算出来吧, 那些比较炫的方法没有必要
'); document.write('--
'); document.write('
'); document.write('※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 http://mitbbs.com·[FROM: 206.196.]
'); 发信人: txdqpal (txdq), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: another interview question
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Fri Oct 13 16:16:08 2006)

用初中那个竖式开平方没有必要吧, 我觉得泰勒展开就是代数方法, 他们考察的就是
能不能快速算出来吧, 那些比较炫的方法没有必要
--

※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 http://mitbbs.com·[FROM: 206.196.]
skydive 身份:用户 上站次数:2610 发表文章:28966 篇 经验值:42513 表现值:126 生命力:365 我的博客 [回复文章] [回信给作者] [本篇全文] [进入讨论区] [返回顶部] [删除文章] [转寄] [转贴] [ 20 ] document.write('发信人: skydive (跳跳~~备战备荒为人民), 信区: Quant
'); document.write('标 题: Re: another interview question
'); document.write('发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 22:46:45 2006), 转信
'); document.write('
'); document.write('taylor expansion...
'); document.write('
'); document.write('【 在 zhuzhu111 (猪猪) 的大作中提到: 】
'); document.write(': how to get the numerical answer of sqrt(37)=6.08276....
'); document.write(': (怎么用代数方法解37开平方)
'); document.write(': thanks.
'); document.write('
'); document.write('
'); document.write('
'); document.write('--
'); document.write('
'); document.write('※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 mitbbs.com·[FROM: 69.118.]
'); 发信人: skydive (跳跳~~备战备荒为人民), 信区: Quant
标 题: Re: another interview question
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Oct 12 22:46:45 2006), 转信

taylor expansion...

【 在 zhuzhu111 (猪猪) 的大作中提到: 】
: how to get the numerical answer of sqrt(37)=6.08276....
: (怎么用代数方法解37开平方)
: thanks.



--

※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 mitbbs.com·[FROM: 69.118.]
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